Andrei Ostrovsky: China has counted all the environmental consequences of “turning the rivers”
In China began the preparations for the “diversion of rivers, from south to north. Will be moved 330 thousand people. How environmentally and geopolitically can be dangerous turn of rivers will tell us deputy director of the Institute of the Far East, Andrei Ostrovsky.
- Andrei, hello.
- Hello.
- Tell me, in general, was China conducted any consultation with their neighbors before they approve this plan?
- This plan was approved long ago. This is one of five projects of developing the western regions of China. And now to solve the northern regions problem, it was decided to “transfer” the water from south to north, due to climate warming, the Yellow River became shallow, which causes considerable difficulties and challenges for agricultural development in north-western regions of China’s Yellow River. Therefore, the challenge is to saturate the southern waters of the northern waters of the Yellow River.
- As far as I know, this project has been developed by Soviet specialists, but was finally approved in 2002.
- Yes it is quite true. In 2002 it was decided – this is one of five major projects for the development of western regions of China, along with the project pipeline from Xinjiang to Shanghai, along with the construction of the railway to Tibet, along with environmental problems, improve the ecological situation in the western regions of China. That is – one of the five projects.
- And how China approving such projects? Was there any transparent environmental impact assessment, were there discussions on this project with the public, how to realise such thing?
- In China, there is the nerve center, a center of development – China’s State Council. And all the various departments in the organization send their proposals, which are then discussed by the Committee on the development of government reforms, imposed a session of the Chinese People’s Representatives, and this is still preliminary discussion at the meetings of the CPSU Central Committee. And then at the NPC session has already taken a final decision – is the highest legislative body, as we have – I think.
- I understand that the environmental impacts of this project has not been fully calculated. It is impossible to calculate such thing. We also have a similar project – “reversal” of the northern rivers. The final cross on it was raised in 1986 after the Chernobyl accident, when deep in thought about the consequences of various large-scale projects for the environment.
- No, one time I have been to the western region and talked about all these projects with Chinese scientists. China before which planing all these projects are tend to calculate them. In particular, the construction of Shanghai-Tibet Railway has been calculated, including all the environmental consequences. Here is the same. There are, of course, the pluses and the minuses. The main problem is western China and eastern China. In the eastern areas is a high population density, thousand or two thousand people per square kilometer. In the western region the population of about 5-10 people per square kilometer. Moreover, in connection with the shoaling of the Yellow River, there is a serious threat that people who live there will gradually withdraw from these areas too.
- That means they are solving in parallel employment problems, and not only creating new job offers in construction, but also create favorable conditions for farmers?
- Certainly. Today they have taken steps to encourage afforestation in arid areas. For example, if the peasants did not grow grain, they are receiving grain from special funds, and encouraged to plant forests on the slopes, the steepness of which exceeds 25 degrees.
- And what about the neighbors of China, they are dissatisfied with their plans, or they have no influence on them, even India, a fairly large country expressed dissatisfaction?
- Actually the rivers does not flow to India, all the rivers flow from west to east. Yellow River, Yangtze – they all flow through the territory of China. The only river that flows in Southeast Asia is the river Brahmaputra is flowing into India. It basically starts in Tibet. The Salween and Mekong rivers, which are also in Yunnan province. But as far as I know, the project “diversion” from south to north is mainly focused on the fact that the “transfer” of water from the Yangtze River in the Yellow River. And I do not quite understand India.
- Problems related to the fact that China is building and plans not only to “move” these rivers to the north, but to build a large number of hydropower plants. That is why India indignation is justified. Is this new project troubling because it could change the climate in general throughout the region?
- Today the climate is changing without the construction of these channels. I can say that an upper cap of snow, which feeds the rivers, has already risen in the 200 meters, compared with what it was 10 years ago.
The main problem is not for India. Most of these rivers flow through the territory of China. The Yangtze and Yellow rivers – flow through Chinese territory but not on the territory of India.
